Polish Studies from a distance. A conversation with Prof. Monika Woźniak (Sapienza University of Rome)

Iwona Przybysz: In the biography posted on the Polonistica Sapienza website (polonisticasapienza.wordpress.com), you are introduced as an Italian Polonist and a Polish Italianist (un’italianista polacca e una polonista italiana). Are both of these research identities equivalent to you, or is one of them more important?

Monika Woźniak:  This description comes from a simple fact: first, I studied Polish studies in Poland, and then Italian studies. For a long time in Poland, I worked at the Institute of Romance Philology at the Jagiellonian University, meaning as an Italianist. However, at some point, I established contact with Roman Polonists and came to Rome, where I began working as a Polonist—or rather, a Slavist, since here Polish studies does not function as a separate specialization. Therefore, we are all Slavists. I have been working in Italy for fifteen years now, and I certainly feel more like a Polonist than an Italianist, but those former relationships are visible in my research. I am still looking for common themes, dealing with issues and problems that somehow connect these two countries.

It might seem, however, that practicing Polish studies in Italy is an unusual career path—primarily due to the geographical distance from the culture being studied or potential problems with access to literature. Do you experience any difficulties related to this?

I think in our times, this is not a problem. If we were to look at foreign Polonists during the "heroic times" (i.e., during communism), we would certainly notice such a phenomenon. However, today, in the era of low-cost airlines—when it is easier and faster to fly from Rome to Krakow than to drive from Rome to Milan—and when most publications, especially Polish ones, are available immediately because everything is published in open access, it really is not an issue. Being a Polonist abroad certainly allows for a different perspective on Polish studies than for those who are inside the environment. When you step outside, the point of view changes, even though theoretically you are looking at the same thing.

What, then, has this look from the outside changed in your thinking about Polish studies?

In Italy, one does not look at Polish literature from the perspective of the dogmas that are instilled in us during our education. In that process, a certain image of Polish literature and its development is created, which is not questioned because it has been internalized. Therefore, the confrontation with the view of colleagues who look at our literature as foreigners—fascinated by Polish literature but viewing it from the outside—is interesting. It is also interesting to study the reception of Polish literature—what a foreign reader can find in the literature and discovering that they might see completely different things in it than Poles do. I am also particularly interested in issues concerning translation—which is, after all, an obvious path for someone moving between two countries and two languages.

This is a particularly interesting issue, as you have both translations from Italian into Polish and from Polish into Italian in your body of work. Has your long-term stay in Italy made you feel equally confident in both paths, or does one remain more important to you?

In fact, I primarily translate from Italian into Polish. Into Italian, I have translated mainly classics of children's literature [including poems by Jan Brzechwa, Julian Tuwim, or The Adventures of Koziołek Matołek by Kornel Makuszyński – ed. I.P.]. I had fun doing it and I like such activities. However, when I translate into Italian, I always look for someone we call a "beta reader" in the internet world—a native speaker sensitive to the language who reads my translations, discusses them with me, and looks at them through the eyes of a native user of the language.

To what extent do you feel supported in your research at the institutional level? Does the fact that the Department of Polish Language and Literature, with which you are associated, is part of the Faculty of European, American, and Intercultural Studies, give you a sense of being "on the sidelines"?

I think at the moment this is a general problem for language studies at our university, and indeed throughout the world. The basic trend is that certain languages and literatures are privileged—primarily English language and English literature, as well as Spanish or German. It is therefore known that the so-called "small languages," which abroad include Polish, are on the margins, and I think the situation at Sapienza is no different. The main difference would only be that we are one of the few Italian universities where a relatively large number of foreign languages are lectured and taught. Many of them function only here. While it is true that Polish is present at several universities in Italy, Ukrainian, for example, functions only at Sapienza. The future does not look encouraging, but we shall see what happens next.

For many years, Sapienza played the role of the leading animator of Polish studies in Italy. Is that still the case today?

Compared to other Italian Polish studies departments, it is certainly easier for us because we are close to Polish institutions—including the Polish Institute in Rome or the Polish Academy of Sciences - Scientific Station in Rome. This makes various joint programs or initiatives easier to implement. Although, of course, this depends on the willingness of individuals. Some centers are more active, and others less so. Furthermore, there are few Polonists in Italy, so we try to stay in touch with each other and organize joint seminars at least once a year. I am the president of the AIP association [Associazione Italiana Polonisti – Italian Association of Polonists], which serves to integrate our community. The association also publishes the yearbook pl.it – Rassegna Italiana di Argomenti Polacchi, which serves as another organ for Italian Polonists.

Compared to other Polish studies departments abroad, Sapienza has a relatively rich educational offer for those interested in Polish language and culture. You do not limit yourselves to language courses but also conduct classes on the history of Polish literature, culture, and the Polish language. Who studies at the Department of Polish Language and Literature?

A variety of people come to us. In the past, more Poles studied here (though perhaps one should say Polish women). These people came to Rome for work and at some point decided they needed to complete a degree. Currently, we also have children of immigrants (sometimes from mixed marriages, sometimes from those where both parents are Polish immigrants). Sometimes they speak a little Polish, but it also happens that, for example, they speak quite well but cannot write. At some point, curiosity awakens in them; they want to deepen their knowledge of their parents' country and culture. Sometimes, however, students end up with us by chance. These are Italians who previously had no contact with Poland but were drawn to us by something—for example, an exhibition or conference we organized. It also happens that someone told them that Polish is "cool." There are also people who choose Polish as an option for one semester but, after starting their studies, find they like it very much. They often change their study plan for us, which is very flexible here and allows for changing languages up until the second year.

Do students complain about any difficulties while learning the language?

I don't think so. Students say that the Russian language is very difficult—Polish is friendly to them.

Surely it helps them a lot that they don't have to learn another alphabet…

But my colleague [Prof. Luigi Marinelli – ed. I.P.] and I are also more lenient lecturers.

How are history of literature classes conducted at Sapienza – exclusively in Italian or partially in Polish as well?

In undergraduate studies, we generally do not conduct classes in Polish – the exception being the language lab, i.e., practical exercises. We cannot do this at this stage because the people who come to us do not yet know our language. In undergraduate studies, I only teach literature in the first year. It is an introduction to Polish literature, culture, and the history of the language. You cannot talk to students about Polish literature if you do not first tell them where Poland is located and what its capital is. Besides, in undergraduate studies, I teach language classes – including contrastive grammar for 2nd and 3rd-year students, where I show the differences between the two languages. I weave elements of translation into these classes, which also helps students in their practical language lab sessions. In master's studies, we try to speak mainly in Polish, but sometimes Italian is necessary. Although theoretically students at this stage should know Polish at a B2 level, in practice it varies, so sometimes various issues must be explained to them in Italian as well. For example, one can speak Polish during class while displaying a presentation in Italian, or vice versa. Every year it looks different, and one must adapt to the situation.

Do students – especially at later stages of education – read literary texts (even fragments) in Polish?

In literature classes for second and third-year students, Professor Marinelli and I give the students short texts to read – mainly poems. Thanks to this, the listeners can translate them line by line or compare them with existing translations and laboriously, meticulously analyze these texts bit by bit. However, they are obviously not able to read longer texts in Polish, so they familiarize themselves with those texts that have been translated into Italian. Available translations, however, are not always good.

Are students interested in Polish literature and culture outside of classes as well?

Yes, absolutely. Since there are few students, practically everyone goes to Poland on Erasmus, unless someone really doesn't want to. Everyone has the opportunity to take part in summer Polish language courses organized in various Polish cities. Besides that, we organize many initiatives that meet with a warm reception from students. In October last year, we completed the project The Female Side of Poetry, or through poems to the language as part of the NAWA "Promotion of the Polish language" program. We implemented it with the Lesya Ukrainka Volyn National University in Lutsk and Vilnius University. Students participated in meetings with Polish poets who came to Rome (Krystyna Dąbrowska and Małgorzata Lebda), and then they translated their poems (everyone received one text). We later published these translations in a collective, trilingual volume. As part of the project, we also organized a meeting for participants in Warsaw and an exhibition. The students were delighted with the project. They particularly value all extracurricular initiatives.

In November last year, we were in Naples for the literary festival Impressioni italiane di Jarosław Iwaszkiewicz, during which students translated fragments of various works of his related to Italy and later read them aloud. The students very much enjoyed both the trip itself and the opportunity to meet colleagues from other Polish studies departments. We also organized a meeting about video games, for which colleagues from Krakow came. This initiative also attracted non-Polonists, and one long-term effect may be that one student decided to prepare a master's thesis on The Witcher. These extracurricular things stay in the students' memory the most and are the most interesting experience for them.

And does the way Italian students confront Polish texts in the translation process change anything in your perception of your role as a researcher or translator?

I don't know if there is any direct connection between these two matters. Of course, being a translator, I like teaching translation, but that’s where the matter ends.

How did the pandemic affect the way classes are conducted in your department? In your opinion, did the lack of direct contact with lecturers worsen the students' teaching experience?

It was certainly a great shame for the department, especially since distance learning persisted for a very long time here, as Italy was particularly hard hit by the pandemic. For actually two years, teaching took place mainly remotely. I must admit, however, that we organized ourselves very quickly. I started conducting online classes a week after the lockdown was announced. There was therefore no break in teaching because we immediately learned how to use Zoom and Meet. However, it was tiring. It is obvious that online contact cannot replace live contact.

Did you notice an outflow of students during this period?

Those who were already enrolled in Polish persevered – they are very good students who are currently finishing their master's studies. After the pandemic, however, there was indeed a crash, but it covered all language studies. This general crisis also affected Polish as a smaller language, which always received the "scraps" after English and German.

To conclude: how do you see the future of Polish studies in Italy?

I really don't know at the moment how it will be, because – as I said earlier – according to the general trend, universities concentrate financial resources on the largest languages and are interested in them, while other languages fight for survival. Will we survive? I don't know. If not, then maybe at least someone will one day write a poem for the grave of Italian Polish studies.

Publication created as part of the project „Polonistyka wobec wyzwań współczesnego świata” ["Polish Studies in the face of the challenges of the contemporary world"], co-financed by the state budget under the program of the Minister of Science and Higher Education called "Science for Society II" (project number: NdS-II/SP/0264/2024/01).